Metropolitan Onuphry of Kiev refused to meet with the “exarchs” from Constantinople

Metropolitan Onuphry - permanent member Holy Synod UOC MP, head of the Canonical Commission at the synod - today one of the most authoritative bishops of the Ukrainian Orthodox Church. He is also known as a firm opponent of the schism: his speech at the so-called Kharkov Council in 1992 was decisive for the preservation of the canonical Church in Ukraine. Rich experience of church and monastic life, bishop's ministry made Metropolitan Onuphry one of the most revered and beloved archpastors on Ukrainian soil.

─ Vladyka, your archpastoral service takes place in the region where you were born and raised. This is a complex, multinational, border region... What changes have taken place in it over the past, perhaps not the most prosperous years in interethnic relations?

─ The region in which I obey the bishop is called Chernivtsi. This is truly a multinational region, where many Romanians, Moldovans, Russians live, there are Georgians and Poles here, and now there are also immigrants from Central Asia. But traditionally, all the nationalities inhabiting our region coexisted peacefully. Now is really a time when nationalism is being cultivated, but the Chernivtsi region, thank God, has not been shaken by this nationalism, and people continue to live in harmony, peace, and patience with each other.

─ If you compare it with other regions of Ukraine or Russia, is this a church region?

─ Yes, of course, this is a region where there are many believers.

─ So it was in Soviet years?

─ Even in Soviet times, when believers had to “hide” from the authorities, there were still many churches here compared to other regions. Even under the Soviets, up to 150 priests served here at a time. And now there are 400 parishes in our diocese, despite the fact that the population in the region is about 960 thousand.

- Given the very difficult political situation that has developed in Ukraine now, to what extent does the Orthodox Church manage to maintain the independence of its position and judgments?

─ This is not at all easy... Basically, those people who went to church under the atheistic regime are today devoted children of the Church, opponents of politicians’ interference in church life, they stand for the unity of the holy Russian Orthodox Church. Of those who came to the Church much later, when the time of freedom came, many also became faithful children of the Church, but some still do not have a sufficient understanding of the church mission, of what the Church actually is...

─ So we can say that to a large extent the problems of church life in Ukraine are related to those who can be called converts?

─ You can say this because they understand and love the Church less. They think it is a human organization that can be manipulated. There is no clear understanding that the Church has its own laws, its own rules and its own Head. The Church has Christ as its head, and it must follow Christ, not politicians.

─ Vladyka, unfortunately, it is no secret to anyone that there is now a lot of talk about the potential possibility of the Ukrainian Church falling away from the Moscow Patriarchate. How realistic is this, from your point of view? And if, God forbid, a falling away does occur, then what will be its consequences?

─ I am convinced that we do not have any spiritual arguments in favor of disconnecting from the Moscow Patriarchate. The most important mission of the Church is salvation human souls. In our Church - in the Russian Orthodox Church - this grace of salvation exists to this day. What more can you look for in the Church? Those people who are looking for their own in the Church, and not God’s, they want separation. If it happens, it will be against the will of God. If this happens, then I think that Orthodoxy in Ukraine will be in very great danger, and I am even sure that it will be destroyed.

─ Destroyed or reformed?

─ It can be called differently. There have already been cases of attempts to form an independent Church in Ukraine, and not even one, but several. And it didn’t lead to anything good. Why? “I don’t know: whether we don’t have enough spirit, or whether there is some kind of God’s determination about us that we cannot go against... And this determination, I think, is such that we are children of the same prince Vladimir, so that we are together.” And where these children live - in Ukraine, or in Russia, or in Belarus - it doesn’t matter.

─ And how strong are those people in Ukraine today who are looking for their own, and not God’s, in the Church?

─ Basically, these are people in power, who have administrative levers in their hands and use these levers to ruin the Church, and they ruin the Church through schisms: one schism, a second, a third... Not all, of course, politicians in Ukraine act exactly like this yes, but there are enough of them.

─ And how to overcome this new threat split in Ukraine?

─ Overcome? It cannot be overcome, you just need to stand firm in your faith and confess the truth. They have their own goals, tasks - to split, and our task is to preserve the Church as a single canonical one.

─ Now, despite the decisions of the Council of Bishops, the problem of, let’s say, Bishop Diomede remains relevant. But, of course, this problem cannot be reduced to the personality of just one person, one bishop; it is much broader. What, in your opinion, is the reason that a significant part of people respond to appeals, letters, appeals, similar topics, what was heard until recently from Chukotka?

─ The Church is an organism that animates, leads and contains Christ. The devil always fights against the Church. And he tries to tear people away from the Church under any pretext: some through politics, some through economics, and he even tries to tear someone away through jealousy for God. There are people who are jealous of Bose, but maybe they lack a little sense and prudence. The Apostle Paul, out of excessive zeal, persecuted Christians, so that Vladyka Diomedes in this case, he is precisely an instrument of those forces that want to tear people away from the Church through his exorbitant, unreasonable jealousy.

They are rejected from the Church because of tax identification numbers, new passports, some kind of ATM cards - the devil uses everything, the entire arsenal of temptations that he has, to confuse a person and tear him away from the Church.

─ Many forecasts are being made regarding how the 1020th anniversary of the Baptism of Rus will be celebrated in Kyiv, in particular, it is suggested that a meeting will take place between the head of the Ukrainian Orthodox Church and the false Patriarch Philaret...

─ Will there be an official meeting between our primate, who heads the Orthodox Church in Ukraine, Metropolitan Vladimir, and the schismatic during the celebration of the 1020th anniversary of the Baptism of Rus'? No, this will not happen. If we're talking about about reunification, then our position here is this: our doors are open, we have no right to close them, but these doors are the doors of repentance. The reunification of those who have fallen away can occur through repentance, through the correction of the mistakes they made, the canons they violated. We have the following principle: we can talk about the unification of Orthodox believers only on the basis of the canons of the Holy Orthodox Church.

─ Today in Ukraine, it is easy for a person who does not very well understand all the intricacies of modern church relations to confuse Orthodox church with the Uniate one, a temple belonging to the Ukrainian Church of the Moscow Patriarchate - with the schismatics temple. How can an “ordinary” person living in Ukraine, just coming to the Church, or who has come to Ukraine, avoid mistakes?

─ Ask people who is the head of the Church. And if there is no one to ask, if you came in by mistake, listen to who they are remembering. If they commemorate Philaret or Methodius Kudryakov, or the Pope, leave it, and if Patriarch and Metropolitan Vladimir, stay.

─ From your point of view, are there any specific differences in church life in Russia and Ukraine?

─ There are differences, perhaps, in some minor administrative elements, in decisions regarding economic, economic issues, but not in doctrine. In Divine services everything is the same.

─ Vladyka, there was a time when the Church found itself almost completely excluded from the public, especially since political life states. The church was then in extremely cramped conditions. Today, inclusion in politics, on the contrary, occurs, sometimes consciously, sometimes unconsciously, but it is probably also fraught with some dangers. Don't you think so?

─ I think so. You know, there is such advice from spiritual fathers that in the monastery there should not be too close, friendly relations, excessive frankness between brothers. Because, since people are imperfect, sometimes these close, frank relationships, the fact that they confide some secrets of their hearts to each other, the enemy can then use and turn in such a way that these same people become irreconcilable enemies. This has happened and can happen both in the Church and in the state: in both places people are imperfect. And such an overly close connection can result in mutual hatred. God grant that this does not happen.

─ Vladyka, in your diocese, you said, there are about a million total inhabitants, and at the same time there are 400 parishes and about 500 monastics. This is a lot...

─ This is largely due to the fact that Soviet power was established in Russia since 1917, and in Bukovina since 1946. And such persecutions, such cruel destruction that Russia experienced, did not happen there. I think this is one of the main factors.

─ So, after all, the traditions of church and monastic life were preserved there to a greater extent than in Russia, or rather, they were destroyed to a lesser extent?

─ Yes. After all, there was no such destruction of monasticism, priesthood, and believers as in Russia. At least in the Chernivtsi region, because other regions that were under the Soviet Union from the very beginning suffered the same thing.

─ If we talk about the situation with monasteries, then, unfortunately, it often happens in Russia that when a new monastery is set up or a previously existing one is revived, there is simply no experienced abbot, an experienced confessor who could properly organize life in this monastery , and therefore the formation of a new brotherhood is often very difficult and painful.

─ This a common problem. And we have the same problems, the same monasteries. And we, too, have all young monks; the tradition of monastic life has been interrupted and young monks have been appointed governors, abbots. And they learn how to live, and try to teach their brethren how to live. A person learns to walk spiritually himself, and he also teaches others to walk... But, of course, it is very important for a monastery what abbot is. It’s like a core, if it’s healthy, then a healthy organism will form around it, and if it’s sick, the body may collapse, but from the inside it will rot, it will be weak, frail.

Today we are being drawn into the format political party. This would be if it were not for Christ who led us, but for one of the politicians. But if I wanted to be a politician, I would sacred robes I didn’t put it on, but immediately went into politics. I had such chances when I was young - I rejected them. And having put on spiritual clothes, I must take care of the spiritual and fulfill the spiritual. And those who put on robes and are actively involved in politics, building all sorts of geopolitical plans are not honest people. They could not be real politicians, but simply made some kind of werewolves out of themselves in order to attract people to themselves through their spiritual image. human attention. This is not fair, and it will be very difficult for these people to answer to God.

We are an independent Church and have all the attributes necessary for normal service to God and the people. We have our own Synod, independent of anyone, we have our own Council of Bishops, independent of anyone. The decisions of our Synod, the Council of Bishops are final and no one can appeal them or veto them. We have our own Church Court, which is the final authority. We have everything of our own. There is economic and administrative independence. Tomos will already be a limitation of our freedom that we have today. We don't need this. If someone needs it, let them fight for themselves.

The fact that we have spiritual, canonical, cultural ties with the Moscow Patriarchate is normal, it should be so. The Church is not a political organization that today loves one and hates another - and tomorrow it will be the other way around. The Church loves everyone! We love Moscow and Russians, we love Americans, Africans, Asians - we love everyone! We have no enemies. We have enemies who oppose us, but they are not enemies, we pray for them.

The Patriarchate of Constantinople sent two of its exarchs to Ukraine. This is an anti-canonical act of the Church of Constantinople. She has no right to send her legates to our independent Church. It was once a powerful Church and identified itself with the Byzantine Empire, which covered the entire civilized world. Today Byzantine Empire No. They live only in the past. And instead of the large state that Byzantium was, today there is Turkey, where there is not even an Orthodox faith - you can count the Orthodox on one hand. They brought their native Fatherland to such a state that a powerful Orthodox power turned into a Muslim one. And today they want to command us and teach us how to live! Do they want to bring Ukraine to the same state as their homeland? So they have neither the moral nor the canonical right to appoint exarchs here and interfere in our affairs.

Interfering in the affairs of another Church is an anti-church, anti-canonical action, it is a sin. Sin causes division among people. This sin of interference in the affairs of our Church can give rise to a schism on a global scale in the Orthodox Church.

The Church cannot live by the standards of worldly life. Worldly life, especially political life, is mixed with intrigue, deception, betrayal - there is a collection of all kinds of evil. The Church cannot live by such standards and standards. The Church lives by the commandments of Christ.

We have our own methods of fighting evil - prayer, repentance, patience, humility before each other and before God. This is a powerful weapon that destroys evil.

The priest is called to be a peacemaker, not a politician who divides people. And the ideology that is being propagated today is not God’s ideology. Because the ideology, especially the morality that is implanted in society, is not Christian, anti-Christian. Legalize same-sex marriage, abortion, suicide and the like. This is all contrary to Christ, God does not bless people to do this.

The Church fulfills its mission - it leads people to God, reminds them that we are all God’s creations, that God calls everyone to love each other, tolerate each other, and help each other. And this Church will exist until the end of the world, for the Lord said: the gates of hell will not prevail against Her.

I would like to appeal to all our faithful, to all the Orthodox people of our Church. Don't be afraid of anything! Be strong in your love for God, keep the purity of the holy Orthodox faith which is the road to God. Love each other, tolerate each other, help each other. Evil will pass, but good will live forever.

Primate of the Ukrainian Orthodox Church, Metropolitan of Kiev and All Ukraine Onuphry refused to meet with the so-called “exarchs” of the Patriarchate of Constantinople, since they arrived on someone else’s canonical territory on their own, this was reported to the administration of the Ukrainian Church by the Metropolitan of Boryspil and Brovary Anthony.

As Bishop Anthony said in an interview with the Ukrainian publication Vesti, now the canonical Church in Ukraine does not have a direct dialogue with the Patriarchate of Constantinople, “since the very principle of the existence of the Local Orthodox Church has been grossly violated.”

Material on the topic

Events with the granting of illegal autocephaly by Constantinople have already happened. And today he again risks creating a situation that, first of all, will have a negative impact on ordinary believers, the doctor told “Thomas” about this church history, Archpriest Vladislav Tsypin.

– Those representatives of the Patriarchate of Constantinople who arrived in Ukraine with a specific task, in our opinion, are here and act anti-canonically. Therefore, when they asked to be received by the Primate of our Church, His Beatitude Metropolitan Onuphry categorically refused to do so. In particular, because their very arrival on the territory of our Church should be discussed in advance, and they would have to receive permission from the Ukrainian Orthodox Church for this,” noted Metropolitan Anthony.

The Bishop especially pointed out that these bishops “came on their own, and not just as pilgrims, but with a clear goal - to implement some of their projects.”

Metropolitan Anthony called the recent decision of the Russian Orthodox Church to suspend the commemoration of the Patriarch of Constantinople and participation in forums presided over by the Church of Constantinople.

– Eucharistic communion is not broken, which provides our priests with the opportunity to participate in joint services and receive communion. This is precisely a signal that there is still an opportunity for dialogue. This is a clear call for dialogue, as well as another chance to come to your senses, - emphasized the head of the Ukrainian Church, adding that the relationship between the Churches “should bring benefit to this world, and not become, at someone’s external suggestion, another pretext for dividing people , especially people of the same faith.”

What is he like, His Beatitude Metropolitan Onuphry? We read his interview on current topics, we listen to his sermons during services, but what do we know about him? Only what the lines of the official biography contain.

September 17 marked one month since the enthronement of the new Primate of the Ukrainian Orthodox Church, and just on the eve of this date his first big interview with church media took place. Chief editors of the Orthodox magazine for youth “Otrok. ua» Bishop Jonah of Obukhov, Orthodox radio programs on radio “Era” Protodeacon Nikolai Lysenko and information portal“Orthodoxy in Ukraine” Yuliy Kominko visited His Beatitude Metropolitan Onuphry.

The “signature style” of His Beatitude’s answers is light, with good humor; friendly, interested, open; laconic and wise and willing to calmly discuss any topic. Our hour and a half emotional conversation flowed from one topic to another, and I had to finish it not because there weren’t enough questions, but because the time ran out too quickly.

- Your Beatitude, we know that your father was a priest. Were there any other clergy in your family?

Yes, I was born into a priest's family. Was also a priest brother my father. He served in our village when Bukovina was occupied by Romania. My father was ordained already in Soviet times.

- It probably wasn’t easy to choose this path then...

It’s not easy... My father first worked as a warehouse manager on a collective farm. There is so much stuff there - from bread, all kinds of food products to household goods - shovels, rakes. I came to him when I was little, climbed through those warehouses - it was interesting...

My father did not study at the seminary; he completed pastoral courses at the diocesan administration. There were these in the 50s. We, little ones, didn’t even know that he went to the course. And then he was ordained.

I can say that my father was very respected in our village. He worked a lot, and I think he earned good money. But he left everything and became a priest. For this, everyone respected him, even the Soviet bosses.

He did not serve in our village. We then had one village council, but divided: the village where I was born was called Korytnoye, and the second was Berezhonka. It was in Berezhonka that he served. He baptized many at home and married many. People trusted him.

I remember how I, already a monk, came home to visit, late in the evening people came to him to baptize their children. A car pulls up, they take the child out of it, and quietly go into the house with her. And in the house everything is ready for baptism. Sometimes he got married at night.

- Did he have enough time to communicate with you children?

I talked, but there wasn’t much free time. The priest gives all of himself to people, and such crumbs are left for the family - like crumbs from the table. He comes home after the service, tired and exhausted. You just have to endure it, NOT turn it inside out - like, talk to us, tell us. He may already barely move his tongue...

But there were times when he told us something from the lives of saints. I remember, when I was still little, he talked about St. Basil the Great - a former scientist, he left everything and became a monk. And as he stood up to pray, the sun was still shining on the back of his head, and when he finished his prayer, the sun was already shining in his face. That is, he prayed all night - from sunset to sunrise. I remembered it so much that I then thought: “I want to be like that!” Then I forgot about it, grew up like all children...

But I went to church all the time. Not always willingly, though... (smiles and pauses - ed.). I wanted to play football: on Sunday in the morning the teams gather, and my mother: “Go to church, get ready for church.” Father went very early, we did not go with him. He got up while it was still dark, read the rule and then walked, and we were already at the beginning of the Liturgy. Mom gathers us, leads us, and I was complaining: “God, it’s so good, the guys are playing football, but I have to go to church.”

Why then, at such a time - the flourishing of atheistic sentiments - did your father decide to become a priest, what influenced him?

I can not tell. I think it was an impulse of his soul, a calling. If there is no God's calling, then no one can bear it. After all, he doomed himself to shame and reproach. People respected him very much, but in society, in the state, everyone then said that priests were obscurantists and deceivers.

- How did you children perceive this attitude towards your father?

Yes, we weren’t praised either. We went to church and never renounced God. They called us names too, but we endured them. What was there to do? There was a time when there were no options.

- Were you a pioneer, a Komsomol member?

To be honest, I was neither a pioneer nor a Komsomol member. My class teacher was my older brother’s wife, that is, she was not a stranger. And as they said that they would accept me as a pioneer, I didn’t go to school that day and so I did NOT join the pioneers. But she forced me to put on a tie and walk around in it, because she was already reproached: they say, for being a daughter-in-law...

And I didn’t join the Komsomol. Although we were literally forced: they called us into the teachers’ room and made us kneel (there were several of us guys who didn’t want to join the Komsomol). We were on our knees for hours...

- How many children did you have in your family?

Four.

-Are you the youngest?

The penultimate one (smiles thoughtfully). We were three brothers and after me a younger sister.

The elder brother also became a priest. It’s been two years since he died, and all the other brothers and sister died, I was the only one left.

When I entered the seminary, I “burned” all my bridges behind me

- After school, when there was a choice life path, have you had any hesitation about what to do next in life?

I had big plans! This is what I dreamed of: to study at a university, graduate, and then go to seminary.

After school, he graduated from a vocational school, then went to preparatory courses at the university. I studied for a year and entered Chernivtsi Technical University for the evening department. I worked during the day - I had to live on something, because my father did not help. It’s not that he couldn’t help, he could, but he didn’t do it on principle. He said: “I raised you, you got an education, now you have to help me, and not I you.” And he didn’t give me a penny. So I had to work. And working during the day, I went to study in the evening.

From somewhere I had a terrible desire to learn! Although I studied at school, one might say, with negligence. I graduated from school without a C, but I don’t know how, because I never had any books or a briefcase - I had one notebook for all occasions.

And then I studied with such desire... I work until 4 or 5 o’clock in the afternoon, come home, eat, classes at the university begin at six and until 23.30. By the time I get home it’s already 12, by the time I go to bed it’s half past twelve. Get up at half past six, and so on every day. I slept wherever I could - in a trolleybus, a bus. I just sat down and went to sleep...

-Who did you work for?

Electrician. At first he worked installing low-current lines (he graduated from college in this specialty), and then, when he entered the university, he worked at a weaving factory as an electrician.

Well, I studied. And I studied everywhere! I’ll come to the village, sit on the stove, take books and solve problems... People talk, but I do my own thing.

I completed three years of university and was thinking of finishing two more, but to do this I had to transfer to either Odessa or Kyiv and choose a specialization. I tried to transfer, but it didn't work. But I didn’t want to study by correspondence, I liked listening to lectures, answering seminars, laboratory works fulfill. And at the university I was among the best students, I was even invited to speak on the radio.

I then sat down on a bench in the square and thought: “Do I need to study further?” Anyway, I won’t work in my specialty; two or three years will pass and I’ll forget everything. The general education subjects that I studied in three years at university were needed in my life - history, mathematics, chemistry, physics. And then go on to specialization - why? And I decided that I wouldn’t go any further. He left the university after the third year and entered the seminary.

It was a time of open persecution of believers. You had no doubts, because young people were prevented from entering religious educational institutions?

How can I tell you... There was no doubt. Even when I entered seminary, I “burned” all my bridges behind me. I collected documents from the university to continue my studies at higher education. educational institution, and these documents were suitable for the seminary. I left the city, was removed from the military register and left, not knowing whether I would enroll or not. But I didn’t intend to go back, it would be difficult for me. None of my friends knew that I would choose this path - I would go to the seminary.

I decided this: if I don’t do it, I’ll stay in the monastery for some kind of obedience and won’t come back. But God gave, I was enrolled, and I didn’t have to use my, so to speak, “planB” (smiles).

- You took monastic vows a year before graduating from the seminary, that is, you “burned bridges” again?

He took monastic vows in the 3rd grade of the seminary. I immediately entered the 2nd grade, in 1969, and a year later I was enrolled in the brethren of the Trinity-Sergius Lavra. Those who studied at the seminary were quickly accepted into the brethren. At the end of 1970 I entered the Lavra, and in March 1971 I was tonsured.

- How did you even decide to take monastic vows?

I don’t know how... It all happened so quickly. To be honest, in my life before the seminary I had never seen any living monks; the monasteries were all closed. But, probably, this was God’s calling - there is no other way to explain it. God called me and I went.

- Were there people near you who became a kind of spiritual ideal for you?

There were monks in the Lavra who became for us a model of life and service to God and the Church. Especially Archimandrite Kirill (Pavlov). He is still alive, but ill, he is 95 years old... He was an authority not only for me, but for many. He went through the entire war, after the war he entered the seminary, he was a very humble, meek monk. Probably because he loved everyone, everyone loved and respected him.

I came to the Pochaev Lavra as a servant and respected everyone. Well, they tolerated me in return.

Turbulent events of the twentieth century - Great Patriotic War, post-war famine, repressions, Khrushchev’s persecutions - how do you remember them?

I vaguely remember the post-war period, because I was born under Soviet rule - at the end of 1944.

I remember the post-war upsurge. People lived very poorly, there was extreme poverty and also hunger. But... I don’t know what this can be connected with, but people sang. All day long, guys and girls work in the fields, and then go throughout the village and sing! They didn’t sing early, so they went out at dawn, and in the evening they come home from work, they’ve worked hard, but they still sing.

I believe that there was momentum for improvement then. Although they lived poorly, the movement was already underway. People felt it, and it probably gave them such optimism.

You know, His Beatitude Metropolitan Vladimir also spoke about this in an interview. What people sang - both on joyful and sad occasions. And now everyone is silent. What do you think the Church can do for people so that they...

- At least they wanted to sing...

I think that today the world has taken a slightly different path of development. Modern means Communications and information drive a person into another plane of life - unreal. Communication takes place via the Internet, Skype. It’s one thing when we sit and see each other - maybe we won’t say as many words as we will understand, because often emotions speak more than words.

And this unreal plane binds a person. Unreality is a kind of lie, and a lie is a sin, and sin binds a person. A person does not realize this, he is bound by sin like a bond, and cannot straighten his chest and sing.

- For several years you were the governor of the Assumption Pochaev Lavra. How do you remember the Lavra?

Pochaev Lavra is a monastery that has experienced a lot. Its inhabitants suffered a lot during Soviet times: oppression, persecution, attempts to close the Lavra...

When I arrived there, the brethren told me what they had to endure. In Moscow, in the Trinity-Sergius Lavra, the authorities could not afford this, and on the periphery they carried out real vandalism. During raids, the brethren hid wherever they could. Everyone who was found was dragged to the cars, taken away, arrested, and thrown into prison. Monks were in prison.

And the inhabitants of the Lavra endured everything; they were true courageous fighters for the faith.

I arrived, and almost all of them were heroes (smiles, continues the story lively and with humor). Each is a nugget: here you have a diamond, an amethyst, and various gems …

- And how was it for you as a governor there, among such a treasury?

As much as I could, I always treated everyone with respect.

- Then there were Chernivtsi... Can you tell us what Orthodox Bukovina is like?

I think all regions have their own specifics. Same with Bukovina. This is a cosmopolitan area. Ukrainians, Russians, Romanians, Moldovans, Jews, Poles, and Georgians live there. And traditionally everyone has always lived in peace. Everyone kept their own, but in everyday life they did not compete with each other, they helped and lived together.

When perestroika began, the collapse of the Union, the region began to be shaken on the wave of nationalism: Ukrainians are good, but no one else...

Then it took a lot of effort to show that everyone was good before God. God has neither a Ukrainian, nor a Russian, nor an American, nor a Jew, nor a Belarusian, but there is His child. There is a creation of God, and there is a Creator. And the fact that we have become nations is not due to virtue or sin. It was our sin that we were divided into nations. The Tower of Babel was the fruit of human pride, and in order to stop this madness, the Lord confused the languages ​​of people. Before this, everyone spoke the same language and understood each other.

When on Mount Athos I visited a hermit, Elder Joseph, in the area of ​​the Great Lavra. We communicated: he spoke Greek, and I spoke Russian, and there was a translator between us. We talked, then he shook his head and said: “Eh-eh, what has sin done to us! We now need translators...”

Everyone boasts that their nation is better than the other. And it is not the nation, but the individual that can be preferred before God! If the nation is unanimous in the love of God, then, of course, it will be pleasant. But God values ​​me not because I am Ukrainian, or Russian, or anyone else, but if I have the fear of God, I fear God. If I obey God, I want to do His will, I am pleasing to God. If not, then no matter what nation I am, I will be the very last.

And when the nationalist movement began in the Chernivtsi region, I tried as much as I could not to participate in it and always, wherever possible, I told people that God does not have a nation, God has His creation. He loves equally both the black and the white, both the white and the yellow-skinned. And whoever humbles himself more before God, who tries more to live according to the commandments, will be better for God.

And slowly everything became quiet. There were some small outbreaks, but people still live in peace and harmony.

“It’s amazing that people accepted the word about peace.” Now calling for peace is a thankless task...

We must show by example. A priest must preach not only with words, but with his whole life. Of course, every person should do this, but first of all, this applies to clergy.

I have always tried to ensure that my deeds do not diverge from my words, so that I do not live on two planes - I say one thing, I do another. What I say is what I try to do.

As much as I could, I always treated everyone with respect; He loved everyone - as much as he could love, he helped - as much as he could help. People saw it, and I think it was more effective than words. A person always responds to respect with respect.

In general, it is surprising how the believers from Chernivtsi let you go after 24 years of your leadership of the diocese. It was probably difficult for the Bukovinian flock to do this...

How they let me go... I didn’t even ask for time off. I went to the Synod in winter and never returned.

When there was a threat of an attack on the Lavra in February, they called me and invited me to the Synod. I served on Sunday, got ready and went. At the Synod they determined that I should obey the Locum Tenens. I no longer went to Chernivtsi and lived in the Lavra for six months. And then they were elected to this position.

About schism: easy to break, difficult to mend

Your Beatitude, in your life there was an example of amazing reconciliation. Your communication with Bishop Laurus, the late Primate of the Russian Orthodox Church Outside of Russia. Please tell us about this. What kind of personality was Vladyka Laurus, and what did you have in common in your spiritual views?

I met Bishop Laurus in 1995. For the first time in my life, I then went to Canada. While there, I thought: “I’ll look at America at least with one eye.” In Canada I got a visa and went to the United States. From Toronto, where I stayed in Canada, you need to drive 90 km, and America already begins. And on the other side is Jordanville, where the Trinity Monastery of the ROCOR is located.

One God-loving man and I went to Jordanville, and I stayed overnight in the monastery. The person who drove me was a parishioner of the Russian Orthodox Church Outside of Russia, personally acquainted with Bishop Laurus, and he warned the bishop that I would come.

I was left to dine in the refectory. I sit, eat, and the monks look at me: first one run back and forth, then a second, then a third. How did they imagine the monks from Soviet Union? With a machine gun under his cassock, with a party card in his breast pocket...

After dinner, Bishop Laurus, abbot of the Jordanville Monastery, came to my cell. He was excited and was in a hurry to get somewhere. Asked me a few simple questions and ran. In the morning I went to New York, looked at the churches and the city, and late in the evening I returned to the monastery. When I left Jordanville the next morning, Bishop Laurus came to see me off, he was completely different. He was in no hurry, spoke calmly, and walked me to the car, where we said goodbye.

From then on, when I came to America or Canada, he and I always called each other and met. It happened that I was in Canada and didn’t go to America, then he came specially, we met and talked.

We had different conversations, but we never talked about the unification of the Churches, although our topics still revolved around this. And when the question of the unification of the Church Abroad with the fullness of the Russian Church moved forward, Bishop Laurus wanted me to be part of the delegation that would travel around all continents where there is a presence of the Russian Church Abroad. Therefore, as part of a group of the Moscow Patriarchate, we traveled around Europe, America, and Australia. I don’t regret this experience, although there was a certain feeling of fear - that we would arrive and they would tell us: “The Muscovites have come, well, get out of here!” You are all party members, you are all communists." But this was not the case. We served, almost everywhere I was assigned to preach sermons, and no one said an offensive word to us.

Vladyka, you touched on the topic of the unification of Churches. Can I ask a question regarding the Ukrainian split? In 1992, when it happened, you were a very young bishop, only 2 years after your consecration. Now 20 years have passed, you already have experience and see the situation from the other side. What factors do you think are necessary to overcome the split?

You know, when the Savior prayed in the Garden of Gethsemane, he said: “Let them all be one.” The Lord Himself wanted everyone to be one, but this did not happen. We are such stubborn people...

And my desire is for everyone to be united, but the unity must be in Christ. If it is not in Christ, but on some other basis, then no matter what they are, there will be no unity. And in Christ there can be unity, but it is very difficult to create. Easy to tear, but difficult to mend.

What should each of us, clergy and religious, do on our own level to help restore unity?

I think that in order for unity to be restored, everyone must take care of their personal salvation. Then, perhaps, this idea will be realized as much as possible.

But to think that everyone will unite is unrealistic, it is a utopia. Maximum pooling can be when greatest number people will join Christ. And this is only possible if each of us first of all takes care of our own salvation.

As a shepherd, I must also think about those who are lost, but above all, I must care about those who are in the bosom of the Church. It often happens with us: he drove me into the bosom of the Church, as if into a concentration camp, closed the gates and went to look for others, but these here are dying of hunger.

The primary task of the Church is to take care of those she has, so that they feel good and grow spiritually. There are many of us, and we are all at different levels of spiritual perfection. The task of a priest is to understand at what level a person is spiritually and to help him rise to a higher level.

The main task of the Church is to help those inside the church fence to become better people. And then, if there is still energy left, to catch those running in the desert...

We must do what we can. And as far as our churches are filled with people, this is all in the will of God!

How then should the Church carry out its mission if almost every priest has a lot of parishioners, and there is simply not enough strength to evangelize?

The priest preaches the gospel weekly, every holiday, and the doors of the Church are open to everyone. Anyone who wants can come and listen to the gospel.

Preaching the gospel does not mean that a priest should run to the market on Sunday or a holiday when it is full of people, or to the stadium on Saturday when there is a football match. The gospel takes place in the temple. And the Savior, when he walked the earth, mostly went into the synagogue, where believers gather, and preached there. It happened that he preached somewhere in the desert, but people came to listen to Him and He spoke for them. Please note that it was not Christ who came to people, but people who came to Christ.

One might say: why shouldn’t the priest go where he is not expected? The fact is that I can go anywhere, but for a person who does not want to hear me, I will not bring any benefit, although I will say the most useful and good words. If a person is ready to accept the word of God, he goes and looks for where to hear it. And going to catch those who don’t want to listen is simply “working without efficiency.” A person must be ready to accept the word.

And priests preach the gospel all the time - in churches.

- Which problems in our Church are real, and which, in your opinion, are far-fetched?

The real problems in the Church are the increase of sin among people, including church members. Believers, living in this world, joining this world, become polluted by sin.

And the second problem of the Church is that today people have reached such a degree of spiritual degradation, they are trying to legitimize those rules that God condemns. This shouldn't happen.

In my opinion, such problems as, for example, material enrichment of the clergy and churches are far-fetched. If you can build a beautiful temple, build it; if you can’t, build a smaller one. And so - everything that has value only in earthly life should not be a problem for us.

Your Beatitude, sometimes you have to be on the periphery - in villages, small towns. There are certain problems - there are not enough people in churches. Previously, in the early 1990s, there were a lot of people in churches. How to fill our churches again, how to generally support people in remote parishes? What do you, as the Primate of the Ukrainian Orthodox Church, see among the main tasks for the near future in order to support church life?

People leave the temple when they join the elements of this world and strive to get into the flow modern life, get rich, take a high position. They think that they will find more for themselves in the world than they have in the Church. This separates us from the Church.

The Church does not promise earthly capital, but promises eternal wealth. The purpose of man is not earthly life, but the Kingdom of Heaven. The earthly path is short term, in which we must demonstrate our love for God to the maximum - in trials, various temptations. And the whirlpool of earthly life spins people, and they forget about their purpose. They begin to chase the ghosts of wealth and fame and leave the Church.

We must do what we can. And as far as our churches are filled with people, this is all in the hands of God, because God Himself leads man to salvation. We ask that He be merciful to us all, but each one receives as much mercy as he can handle.

About foreign languages, the Internet and mobilization

- And finally, a few short questions. Which saint is especially close to you?

I love all the saints. But if we take the works of the holy fathers, their legacy, then I really like Saints Basil the Great and Ignatius Brianchaninov.

I love my heavenly patrons, who pray for me before God. I respect you St. Sergius, who accepted me into his monastery when I was “a reproach to the world and a humiliation among people.”

And I am grateful to the saints of Kiev-Pechersk that they also cover me, a sinner, with their prayers.

- What is your favorite place in Ukraine and in the world?

There is no place where I would like to go most mentally. But I feel comfortable where I was born - in the Chernivtsi region, I like to tamp.

There is also no such place in the world, except Athos and Jerusalem. I have been to America many times, Canada, Germany, and Australia once. Every continent and country is beautiful in its own way, but this is the earth.

- When did you learn English?

I decided to study it when I first came to Canada. I had a certain base - from school, and from university, seminary, and academy. But we were taught in such a way that we still couldn’t speak. Although later, when I started learning the language, I needed rules.

On the plane to Canada, a Canadian sat down with me and started talking to me, I even answered him a few words. My brain, I remember, worked in such a way that I remembered everything, even those words that primary school taught school (laughs). So I realized that you need to know the language, because then you feel free. And since you don’t know the language, you travel as if with a bag on your head.

- What other languages ​​do you know?

Romanian, a little Greek. He knew Greek well, but if there is no communication practice, knowledge is forgotten.

- Do you use it? mobile phone, Internet, watch TV? Where do you even get your information from?

I watch TV, use mobile phones occasionally, and don’t carry them myself. The Internet is very rare; I use mostly printed materials that are prepared for me.

And I’m so allergic to phones! In the Trinity-Sergius Lavra, I was obedient to the cell attendant of the Viceroy, and we had to answer calls. The phone rang so often that it gave me a shock. Since then I have been using a phone, but without having one.

Regarding the Internet, I would like to say that if you need it in your own way professional responsibilities, then you can use it, but only as much as you need for work. But if this is a hobby, then I would advise you to look into it less, especially for young people. The Internet has a significant impact on them. Negative influence. As a priest, many people come to me whose children are seriously ill. Children are small, do not know how to control themselves and surf the Internet without any measure. Something incomprehensible begins to happen to them, they become detached from reality, live in virtual world. The psyche suffers from this, and very serious physical illnesses also occur.

Your Beatitude, finally we ask you to say parting words for our readers. The war comes into our homes through television screens, loudspeakers, and messages in newspapers. People begin to prepare: they acquire weapons, learn to provide medical care. Probably, now is also the time for spiritual mobilization, and this mobilization is no less important than military one. What do we, Christians, need to do now, what traits should we mobilize in ourselves first?

We need to strengthen ourselves spiritually. Because times are difficult and responsible. And each person, in addition to the trials common to society, has his own personal temptation. In order to pass all the tests, a person must be spiritually strong and strong. This spiritual strength is given through prayer. Good deeds are also good, but prayer is more important.

It is necessary for people to take time for prayer and personally turn to God. In prayer, a person can fully realize himself: bring to God both his repentance and thanksgiving, ask for what he needs, so that the Lord will protect him on all paths of life. A person can get everything for himself by turning to God, so special attention should be paid to prayer.

“Today the Council of Bishops of the Ukrainian Orthodox Church took place, at which the election of a new Primate of our Church took place after the death of His Beatitude Metropolitan Vladimir of Kyiv and All Ukraine.

In addition, the Council discussed a number of issues that concern both our Church and our society.

The Council expresses gratitude to the authorities for doing everything in their power to ensure that the Council would not be interfered with by any circumstances, so that we could resolve our problems in a peaceful atmosphere. The Council prays for our government, that the Lord will help us in this difficult time to find ways to establish peace in our land and improve the well-being of our people.

We pray to God that the Lord will give the spirit of peace to those people who are fighting today, so that they understand that killing each other is not a commandment of God. The Lord calls us to peace. And we must be sons of peace.

Our common wishes were that we want to see our Ukraine united, beautiful, powerful and renewed. We understand that this renewal can only happen in one way: when each person makes an effort to renew himself, to improve himself spiritually. If we have this, then we will have a new country, better than the one we have today. Without this there can be no spiritual growth, and it will be difficult to do anything in a new way. Because the people who inhabit our earth today are the same. AND new country can only happen when we become renewed people.

I wish everyone peace, happiness and God's blessing ».

On unification with the Kyiv Patriarchate

– Tell me, please, will there be a unification of the Churches during your reign? Will you strive for this?

– We discussed this issue. We have always been and remain open to dialogue between different branches of Orthodoxy, and we want unification. But we have our own principles. These are the canons of the Holy Orthodox Church. And unification can only take place according to these canons. Other arguments cannot be sufficient for our unification.

We will communicate with our Orthodox brothers, we will look for ways. I think that God will help us with this.

– In the 90s, you were in favor of removing Bishop Philaret from office. How will you look for dialogue now?

– I am looking for a dialogue not with Filaret, but with the Church.

– But he is the head of this church!

- So what! I am the head of the church, but I am not the Church!

On relations with the Russian Orthodox Church

– Patriarch Kirill has already congratulated you. How will you build relations with the Russian Orthodox Church and what will be the position of the UOC?

– We will build relations with the Russian Orthodox Church on those canonical foundations, the rules that exist in our Church, by which we live today.

We have independence in management, independence, and when performing our service, we take into account only our internal realities. We have this freedom. And the fact that we strive for Christ, then in this we are united.

– Is there already confirmation from Moscow from the Moscow Patriarchate of the choice of the episcopate of the UOC?

- There is already confirmation. The Patriarch has already blessed our choice.

About assistance to the east of Ukraine

– Will the Ukrainian Orthodox Church send some kind of special humanitarian mission to the east of Ukraine?

– We are already doing this. About 700 thousand hryvnia have already been collected for residents affected by the eastern regions. We have already delivered 120 tons of humanitarian aid: medicines, hygiene products. And we continue to collect and send. We accept refugees and children, create conditions for them so that they can live normally.

– Who is to blame for the conflict in eastern Ukraine?

– I am not a politician, I cannot answer this question. And it is not intended to provide political analysis. I am called to pray for everyone. So that the Lord will reconcile all people.

– Do you send chaplains there?

- We are sending, we have chaplains.

About the meeting with the head of the UOC-KP

– When do you plan to meet with Patriarch Filaret? The creation of the commission was previously announced.

– There is a process here. And your question that “I must meet with Patriarch Filaret” shows that you have “taken hold of the head” of this matter, but first you need to put it on its feet.

About the first steps in the position

– What will be your first steps in this high position?

– My first steps will be to do everything possible and within my control, so that I become better and we all become better spiritually and morally. And this is the path to peace. Without this there will be no peace anywhere. Because the war begins right here (points to his heart).

About wishes to your flock

– Today we commemorated our deceased Primate. He led the Church for 22 years. We are all grateful to him, he was a father to us. A multi-million flock of the Ukrainian Orthodox Church has formed. Now you will take care of this flock. What would you wish for your congregation on the day of your election?

“I would wish that we all tolerate each other as we are.” And that we pray for each other.

Thank you all very much and I wish God's blessings. Thank you for your attention to our Church.